Episode 245: Holiday food tips with Melissa Clark!

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Rebecca:
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Rebecca:
Welcome to Parenting Bytes, this is Rebecca Levey, I’m here today with Amy Oztan of Amy Ever After, hello, and Andrea Smith Technology Guru Extraordinaire.

Andrea:
Hello.

Rebecca:
Today on the show, we have Melissa Clark, who we love, love, love, food writer, cookbook author, New York Times food columnist, my go to woman for recipes of all kinds. Every time I see Melissa’s name on a recipe I’m looking at, I know it’s going to be good. So.

Amy:
Oh, I have a funny story, my daughter ordered takeout shrimp scampi the other day and my husband tasted it and he was like, no, no, no, no, no. And then the next night, he made Melissa Clark recipe and it was like, this is how it’s supposed to taste.

Rebecca:
It’s so true, you know why? Because because she actually tests all her recipes like a thousand times, which is what happens when you use recipes that don’t come out. It’s usually because someone hasn’t tested them to death, which is what happens to a lot of food bloggers, I think sometimes, and cookbook authors who aren’t actual cookbook authors who don’t actually cook. So.

Amy:
Well, I would say that’s why I like 10 recipes on my blog, because I test them for a year and then I’m so sick of them that I never post them.

Rebecca:
Right. What’s so funny, my daughter said, because my daughter’s begun to cook and she’s like this recipe, like I always have to add so much more this this says I’m like, who is it? And she told me. And I’m like, Oh, yeah. His recipes seem like they never taste like anything. And like, you always have to, like, double the spices.

Amy:
Oh,

Rebecca:
It’s

Amy:
My

Rebecca:
Like

Amy:
Cook,

Rebecca:
That’s

Amy:
My

Rebecca:
His thing.

Amy:
Cookbook club, we did a book where, like all of us without consulting each other, we got around the table for the final meal and we were all like, nothing is seasoned. Like

Rebecca:
It’s

Amy:
We all

Rebecca:
Not

Amy:
Had

Rebecca:
Weird.

Amy:
To add so much more. So I’m going to consult with you after and see if it’s the same writer,

Rebecca:
Yes,

Amy:
Because

Rebecca:
I

Amy:
It was

Rebecca:
Bet

Amy:
Hilarious.

Rebecca:
It is, but maybe he just has a really sensitive palate and maybe that’s a problem. But anyway, Melissa is joining us on the show today. We’re going to talk about sort of smaller holiday stuff. We’re going have a lot of talk about cookies because let’s let’s get real. That’s what the holidays are about. And then we’re gonna talk about her new cookbook, Kid in the Kitchen, which is not just for kids and first of all, not for little kids. It’s like tweens, teens, but also for those of us adults who maybe are new to the kitchen or like looking to expand what they do in the kitchen, sort of break out of your comfort zone and realize you can do a lot more than you think. So

Andrea:
Maybe

Rebecca:
We will.

Andrea:
It’s for Andrea, it’s basically for me.

Amy:
Yeah, and like it or like, if you’re if you cook a lot, but you never learn the basics, like you never learn, like, why am I doing it this way?

Rebecca:
Right.

Andrea:
Right, like like the recipe says to do this, but I’m not sure how to do it, and why do I have to do that? So that’s what I do. I look at a recipe and I kind of argue with it like, really, why do I have to do that?

Rebecca:
Yeah,

Andrea:
It’s so

Rebecca:
No,

Andrea:
Much

Rebecca:
Really,

Andrea:
Easier to do it this

Rebecca:
Totally,

Andrea:
Way.

Rebecca:
I just did it, I just made a brisket the other night and I’m like, why am I do I have to brown it like sear if I’m going to now cook it for five hours? Like, so I did it because they said to but I was like, I think it’s about caramelizing. I’m like getting that caramelized flavor. But it’s kind of annoying if it’s a four pound thing. I got like brown and flip and stuff, but. All right. Well, we’ll be right back with Melissa Clark and she will tell us why we have to do the things we do in the kitchen.

Rebecca:
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Rebecca:
We are back with our guest, Melissa Clark, food writer, cookbook author, food columnist at The New York Times and author of new cookbook Kid in the Kitchen. Hi, Melissa.

Melissa:
Hi.

Rebecca:
We are so happy to have you with us today. We have been talking sort of, I guess every week we sort of lament the smaller holiday that is, you know, that one that past Thanksgiving and now the two that are upon us, Hanukkah and Christmas and I guess even New Year’s Eve. So we really were excited to have you on the show to help us sort of figure out what smaller holiday but not less joyous holiday looks like. And then also to talk cookies, because let’s face it, like you’re not going to scale down your cookies. Like that’s not

Andrea:
No,

Rebecca:
Happening.

Andrea:
I think, in fact, you’re going to eat more.

Rebecca:
Probably.

Melissa:
I think you can never have too many cookies around, you know, it’s like no matter how many you bake, they always get eaten. It’s amazing. You think

Rebecca:
It’s.

Melissa:
There would be like at some point they’d be like, OK, you know what? I’ve had enough cookies. That just does not happen.

Rebecca:
And you know what, and you’re mad when someone ate the last one, like it’s like you’re sick of it, you’re like, who did that?

Melissa:
My husband is the one who always he manages to always eat the last cookie. I’m like, how do you do that?

Rebecca:
That’s like a sense of entitlement, I think you have to explore with him.

Melissa:
Ba, ba, ba.

Rebecca:
I always have my daughters eat the last cookie, but put the bag back. What is that?

Andrea:
Oh,

Rebecca:
That is so

Andrea:
What

Rebecca:
Mean.

Andrea:
Is that about?

Rebecca:
Audible.

Melissa:
Yeah, Delu does that if my daughter doesn’t show, like it’s always like I’ll go into the cracker’s and there’s like a half a cracker left, I’m like, you know

Rebecca:
It’s like just eat it and throw away the box,

Melissa:
Exactly

Rebecca:
Please.

Melissa:
Or at least let me know that they’re running down, especially those peanut butter crackers that are just so salty. Sweet, yummy.

Rebecca:
Yes.

Melissa:
And

Amy:
Oh.

Melissa:
I can about right.

Rebecca:
Those are a special thing. All right, so let’s let’s talk let’s get to I want to know what you’re doing for your pared down holiday because you usually cook for a lot of people.

Melissa:
Yeah, that’s that is true, this is a crazy year, I can tell you, though, I love it. So every year and not every single year, but most years we have some kind of like a party where we I make a ton of latkes and I have everybody over and we just eat Lokos until we can’t eat anymore. And it is so fun because it’s just like this. It’s like decadent in that you don’t have to cook the latkes if you come over to my house. Right. Like it’s just

Rebecca:
Uh.

Melissa:
Such a nice thing for my friends and my guests. And it’s just, you know, we all stuff our faces, you know, crispy fried potatoes. And I always have, you know, smoked salmon along with the applesauce and the sour cream. I love smoked salmon. I love salmon roast. This is a super fun party and we’re not doing that. And in a way, I’m super sad. But I’m also relieved because after a like a party, my house smelled like fried, always smells like frying oil for at least four days. So and my hair and all my clothes,

Amy:
Wait, that’s a bad thing.

Andrea:
I

Melissa:
Well

Andrea:
Was

Melissa:
It

Andrea:
Going

Melissa:
Kinda

Andrea:
To ask you about that.

Melissa:
It kinda is after you don’t you don’t

Andrea:
It

Melissa:
Let fried

Andrea:
Is.

Melissa:
Foods like you smell like fried, like a fast food restaurant, you know, it’s just like, it’s like they’re great but maybe they don’t smell so good. So that is what I’m trying to look for. Silver linings you guys. I’m doing the best I get.

Amy:
Good friends of mine who have a lot confessed every year, they decided to still have it this year, they’ve moved it to the stoop of their brownstone and they’re calling it a drive by lot fest. So you just, like walk or drive by and I don’t know, they’re going to toss one to you from six feet on theirs, too.

Melissa:
Oh, my God. Wow, that’s

Amy:
I can’t

Melissa:
Super

Amy:
Wait.

Melissa:
Ambitious. We thought about that we’re like, how could we do it outside? But we can. We can’t. We’re not. It’s not happening.

Andrea:
My friend did Lakas last week, in fact, I walked into her house and it smelled like oil burning for days, you know, her husband said he went to the doctor and the doctor was like, Are you feeling OK?

Melissa:
Uh.

Andrea:
He smelled so bad. So we did like his last week. So I texted my sister this morning and said, you know, I don’t have a traditional Hanukkah dinner. Is it OK if I have scallion pancakes instead of potato pancakes for dinner?

Melissa:
Oh,

Andrea:
And she

Melissa:
I

Andrea:
Was

Melissa:
Love

Andrea:
Like, sure,

Melissa:
I love

Andrea:
They’re

Melissa:
That

Andrea:
Fried.

Melissa:
Idea. I love that idea. Well, I mean, don’t get me wrong, we’re still having Luckies. In fact, we already had LifeCare’s once this week because I was, like, getting ready and we’re going to have them again on Saturday night. And I can’t wait. I’m going to make a bunch. And, you know, they’re perfect when I really like them fresh, but they’re pretty good reheated, too. So make some extras and it’s just going to be my family, my small, you know, myself, my husband, my daughter. I’m going to go over to my mom’s the next day and distantly hand her some lackies that she could Le Creuset she can reheat, you know, and if you do in the broiler, they get crispy again. So

Andrea:
Yeah,

Melissa:
She’s going to do that. So,

Andrea:
Now, are you

Melissa:
You

Andrea:
A sour

Melissa:
Know,

Andrea:
Cream or an applesauce person?

Melissa:
I’m savory with a lot guys. I like sour cream and I really like smoked salmon and caviar because you know

Andrea:
Uh.

Melissa:
Who doesn’t, right?

Rebecca:
All right, I feel like everyone should have extra of that this year, because if it’s going smaller, you might as well buy yourself a really nice, expensive food, you know, because you don’t have to worry about it spreading out for a lot of people.

Melissa:
That is true, actually, you can you know, that’s one of the things, you know, speaking of you mentioned New Year’s Eve, that is actually what we’re doing for New Year’s Eve. Like, you know what? We’re just going to buy so much caviar because it’s just it’s just, you know us. So we don’t have any money except

Rebecca:
All

Melissa:
For

Rebecca:
Right.

Melissa:
That. So that is actually we’re going to get that. We’re going to go for this, etcetera. We’re going to do that the good stuff. But, you know, I mean, I do believe that there is something cozy and nice about it just being the three of us. You know, every once in a while I wish I like how do you how do I get rid of my no sleepovers? Like, how do I get rid of my daughter just so to have a romantic evening like that’s not happening this holiday season, we’re not going to go have like a romantic date holiday date that we usually get. But it is also nice that we have her, you know, and we can all hang out. So it’s like it’s pluses and minuses. I don’t know. Do you guys feel the same way?

Amy:
To an extent, I don’t really. Christmas is usually really small for us anyway, it’s usually just the four of us, but my son is living with my mom right now, so that’s a little too small for me like that. It’ll be my first Christmas without my son.

Melissa:
Oh, that’s going to be hard.

Amy:
Yeah, but I want to send him a lot of cookies to make up for it.

Melissa:
Yes,

Amy:
And this

Melissa:
Ok.

Amy:
Is my first time mailing cookies, so I’m nervous. I don’t want them all to get there in pieces.

Melissa:
Yeah, so OK, so I think that’s another thing that is exciting, think of all the joy that baking a batch of cookies and sending them to your son and to all our friends, you know, think of that like that’s going to be a really great thing. So, yes, bake cookies. This is what I think you should do just to like brownies. Is he a brownie

Amy:
Oh,

Melissa:
Guy?

Amy:
Oh, they’re like his favorite.

Melissa:
Ok, I would do, rather than try to do a lot of different kinds of cookies, I would double down on the brownies because brownies ship really well they last well, they ship well because they’re not crumbly, so they don’t fall apart. And what you can do is top the brownies with different, like festive things, like some of them should have crushed up candy canes and some of them can have Eminem’s and some can have pretzels, potato chips, actually, potato chips, brownies. That’s a really good thing. Or, you know, colored sugar, you know, or chopped up Oreos, like just go to town and really just vary the toppings and send him that because they travel well, they won’t get smushed. And when you’re packing them in a box. So a couple of things always pack the boxes full as possible so they don’t move around. And when you’ve packed the boxes full as you can stuff some like extra paper towel or tissue paper in there so they really don’t move and then put your box in another box with some more like crumpled up newspaper or, you know, I actually hoard bubble wrap. As soon as I get bubble wrap and something, I put it in a big thing. So it’s like I have all this bubble wrap saved from all of my packages or even, you know, those padded envelopes that you get sent with all of like all the stuff we’re all ordering online obsessively, all of the Hanukkah gifts and the Christmas gifts. Those padded envelopes are lined with bubble wrap. So you can use those inside your box. So box within a box, packet real tight so it doesn’t move around and it’ll be fine. He’s going to get them and he’s going to be so happy. It’s actually not you know, once you get over the idea, OK, I’m not going to spend like fifteen different kinds. I’m just going to keep it super simple, a bunch of different or Blondie’s work, you know, bar cookies, sturdy bar cookies. And they’re going to arrive in what? They’re going to be fine.

Amy:
He would absolutely go crazy if I sent him an entire box of brownies.

Rebecca:
So my grandma used to send me cookies, she used to make these cookies that I’ve literally been on the hunt for because she developed Parkinson’s at some point and stopped being able to make them and then never wrote down the recipe. But they were kind of like Ricola, but they weren’t regular. So they’re like hard. But she sent them every year to us and she always sent them in like the Dutch, you know, sugar cookie tins. She would buy like a pack of those, like whatever they are. Those are Danish. That’s what they are. Those Danish

Melissa:
Oh, yeah,

Rebecca:
Butter

Melissa:
Yeah.

Rebecca:
Cookies she would like probably eat all the butter cookies and then she would use those tins to send us her cookies. So it was always like that tin inside another box. So it’s kind of awesome because she would send it to us and they would smell like the butter cookie

Melissa:
Avram..

Rebecca:
Had been in there. But those tins are really cheap if

Melissa:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
You.

Melissa:
Those that’s a great idea, actually, you know, you can do with the cookies inside those tins, make rumbles,

Rebecca:
And.

Melissa:
Crush them up and make it because, you know, you need cookies to make rumbles. And I always do. Actually, I do bourbon balls. I like bourbon better than rum, but like, same idea, you know, like crush it, crush up the cookies and then you have the cocoa and the nuts and the whole thing and then douse it up with booze. That is like the perfect thing. And then grown ups get to eat the boozy rum or bourbon balls. You get the tin packet full of cookies and send it off or brownies or a Pencil Nose. Did she use cream cheese in the dough? I’ll bet that her cookie did they

Rebecca:
Yes.

Melissa:
Did they hold up OK when she sent them. See any moist cookie that has like a cream cheese dough actually regular get set. You can mail those really well also it’s just like the shortbread crumbly type of cookie that will fall apart.

Rebecca:
Right, like if it’s going to fall apart in your home, it’s definitely to fall apart in the mail.

Melissa:
One hundred percent, yeah, try dropping it from a high place onto a plate and see what happens.

Rebecca:
Yes, and if you have your dog nearby, they’ll be very excited.

Melissa:
Yeah.

Andrea:
So we’re I do tech tests and job cell phones to see if they break, you’re going to drop cookies. That’s that’s great.

Melissa:
Exactly.

Rebecca:
That’s so funny, I have a question for you about, like, fancy sugar cookies, how do people make them so pretty? I’ve tried. I’ve made the royal icing, whatever. It never looks like that. It also it’s like I have a friend who has a gift for doing it, but I’m determined Kinivo.

Melissa:
Ok, I mean, I cheat, I can’t. OK, so one thing I hate, it’s a piping bag. They may be crazy, like putting the royal icing

Rebecca:
Mm

Melissa:
In

Rebecca:
Hmm.

Melissa:
The piping bag and then I just can’t draw I can’t even draw a straight line with a pen. I really can’t do it with a piping bag. So it’s just never going to like that’s just not going to happen. Plus, I’m way too impatient. If any of this sounds familiar to you, then maybe you should try one of my tricks. I take my royal icing. I thin it down with just a few drops of water. Or you can use vanilla extract, actually. And then I die and I take this royal I say I make a big batch and I put a divided up in and I get a muffin tin and I divide up into the 12 holes

Rebecca:
Knomo.

Melissa:
Of the muffin tin and I die each one a different color with food coloring. And then I just use a paintbrush like a or like a pastry brush and just paint them on the cookies. And then I take sparkly sugar and sprinkle it all over the top. It is so much easier and I think they look great. I mean, they don’t look fancy like the ones with the piping bags, but they look festive and I look pretty. And plus you get the crunchy texture of all that colored sugar. So try this sometime. I really this is this is how I do my cookies and sparkly gingerbread. There’s a recipe on the NYT cooking website for it and it just saves you if you are not, you know, if you if you lack that OCD thing that

Rebecca:
Yes,

Melissa:
You need to be like a perfect pastry chef. This is this is your friend.

Rebecca:
Wait, that’s perfect.

Amy:
That’s it’s really genius for gingerbread, because

Rebecca:
Yes.

Amy:
Even if you like piping gingerbread should not be covered in a bunch of icing, like you should taste the gingerbread. So that’s perfect.

Melissa:
Yeah, yeah, it’s a much thinner coating, too, right, because you’re just painting it on, so.

Rebecca:
Right now, I love that, because last year my husband bought me a personalized cookie cutter of my dog’s face

Melissa:
No,

Rebecca:
And

Melissa:
No, you can get that.

Rebecca:
Yes, I will send you the link. So

Melissa:
I need

Rebecca:
So

Melissa:
That in my life.

Rebecca:
She and she’s like light brown with white markings. So we were going to make gingerbread faces of her this morning and we were like, how are you going to do the white marking? But that’s perfect. If I have a little paint brushes like that, then we can get in the crevices of where she’s white and know now I’m

Melissa:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
Like super

Melissa:
That

Rebecca:
Excited.

Melissa:
Actually works, really, but my daughter last year, we did Corgies for everyone, we actually took a fox cookie cutter and we repurposed it into a corgi.

Rebecca:
No tale for you.

Melissa:
Exactly. Yeah, we cut the tail. Exactly. Just cut the tail right off and you eat that and.

Rebecca:
That’s so funny. All right, so cookies, so you do. I mean, when you’re cookie box, The New York Times, like you really do have this. It was like a cheese board. It reminded me of. It was like something crunchy, something sweet, something Boosie, something, you

Melissa:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
Know.

Melissa:
Exactly, I mean, yes, I mean, but, you know, for them, I’ve never mailed those I mean, those are those cookie boxes that I do, you know, in in the in before times, you would see lots of people over the Christmas season,

Rebecca:
The.

Melissa:
Holiday season and you’d hand them a box. So I think about mailing the cookies a little bit differently. I wouldn’t put I mean, gingerbread are actually pretty sturdy. And if you roll them out, you know, instead of rolling them into thin wafers, if you roll them out a little bit thicker, like a quarter of an inch, they’re probably be OK. I mean, not as good as brownies. I’m telling you, brownies and cookies, those are perfect to mail, but you could get away with some gingerbread to probably be fine. But again, it’s like the sprits cookies. As much as I love those for handing out, they are just that those are your crumbs. Like they become crumbs immediately. You look at them and they start to become crumbs.

Rebecca:
Right. So let’s I want to actually talk a little bit about your new cookbook,

Melissa:
Fantastic. Yeah.

Rebecca:
Because I love it. So it’s called Kid in the Kitchen. And I think, you know, one of the things that happened over this pandemic was that people really did start including their kids in cooking more and more, almost out of necessity just for the boredom factor of their kids. But also maybe like, I can’t just do this alone three times a day anymore.

Melissa:
Oh, my God, seriously, that, you know, I wrote most of the book before the pandemic, you know, this book has been in the works for a while. But as I was finishing it up, as we were going into lockdown the first time in March, and it really occurred to me, you know, when I when I initially set out to write the book, I’m like, OK, I need to teach my daughter to cook. But she’s not going to listen to me because I’m her mom. First of all, you know, it’s like she’s like, OK, I want to cook and kids want to cook. There’s so much more interested than I was. You know, when I was a kid. I started getting interested a little bit later. But now, like, you know, eight, nine, 10 year olds, even littler kids are getting interested. But what I did see out there was a book that was like for tweens, you know, for like tweens and teens, kids who are like, you know, you don’t have to worry about basic safety. Like they understand that fire is hot. Knives are sharp. Right. But they do need handholding with how to and they don’t want you in the kitchen with them, but they do need handholding with how to read a recipe. And so what I did was I was like, all right, let me teach kids. I’ll take recipes that interest them, you know, recipes that my daughter helped me come up with a recipe list.

Melissa:
These are all kit approved recipes. There’s, of course, pizza. There’s, you know, grain bowls. There’s all kinds of really cool salads and tacos and ramen and even Vietnamese pho. But I’m going to break the I’m going to make them simple and I’m going to break the steps down and just can hold them a little more, give them a little more detail of what things should look like and when they should take things off the heat and when they should. You know, how like what does it mean to dice, you know, a carrot and set them up for success so that they can go into the kitchen without their parents and they could cook dinner for you or for themselves. They can make their own snack. They can make their own avocado toast. They can make their own pancakes. And so that was the original intent. But as the pandemic happened, I was like, oh, my God, they’re going to make dinner for me. I need I need a sous chef. I can’t stand it anymore. And and it just, you know, I don’t know about you, but my workload increased when the pandemic started. And then I was also cleaning because everyone was home all the time. Somehow the house was dirtier.

Rebecca:
Uh.

Melissa:
So it’s like cleaning more. And no one was helping me as much as I felt like they should. I just felt like, oh my God, I’m alone trying to, like, steer this entire UShip of a house and I need to put people to work. And putting my daughter to work in a kitchen like this book was perfect. I was like, OK, you get that book and you you know, you’re in charge of salad and you’re in charge a side dish today or maybe you’re in charge of dinner. And I’m going to do salad today. And it just was it was so good because she could do it. She didn’t need me. She could follow the recipe by herself. She could make something that she was proud of. And it got her really excited about cooking. And that’s what I think. It’s just such a good it’s like the perfect time for that because, yeah, we need the help. We parents need the help and they need to, you know, they need to up their game a little bit in terms of helping us around the house right now. So and it’s something that they I mean, believe my daughter would rather do this than the laundry. So it’s good.

Rebecca:
I

Andrea:
You

Rebecca:
Agree

Andrea:
Know, it’s

Rebecca:
With

Andrea:
So

Rebecca:
Her.

Andrea:
Funny because learning to cook really does sometimes for kids come out of necessity, you know, just needing to learn because mom’s not there to do it or mom can’t do it. I mean, I know when I was working in the city full time till eight o’clock at night, my son in junior high school had to start dinner. You know, if he wanted to eat, he had to cook it. Otherwise

Melissa:
Right.

Andrea:
He had to wait. And, you know, so hearing you now and so many of my friends saying they’re just overwhelmed that they have to put together three meals a day now for everybody. I mean, somebody said to me, I wish we only needed to eat once a day. That’s one meal a day. That’s it. And not be hungry. So I totally get it. But I have to tell you that your book sounds like exactly what I need in the kitchen because I’m taking these baby steps now. I’ve cooked and I’ve always cooked, but I don’t cook, you know, anything that that’s beyond 10 steps or a little bit more difficult in a recipe. If I have to brown it before it goes in the crock pot, forget about it.

Melissa:
Yeah.

Andrea:
So I’m learning to do these things now and to take the time and to enjoy it. So it sounds like it’s not just for kids, but maybe beginner cooks, too.

Melissa:
I think it’s really good, you know, I think it’s great for, like I said, tweens and teens, but also it’s perfect for new cooks. And it’s like if you have a kid who’s about to go to college, this is the book for them, because it just breaks down the steps. But it doesn’t do it in a way. It’s not like geared toward little you know, it’s geared toward basically I mean, tween. I mean, I’m sorry, tweens are pretty precocious, like it’s geared toward tween adults. And it’s really it’s something that anybody can use. And there’s a lot of science behind that cooking, too, because I know, you know, kids are curious about that stuff, like why do you have to heat the oil before you get the garlic? Like, why is that important? Now tell me what adult doesn’t need to know that also, you know, it’s going to improve anybody’s cooking.

Amy:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
Yeah,

Amy:
Why

Rebecca:
I don’t.

Amy:
Do you need to hit the oil

Melissa:
Sat

Amy:
Before you put in the garlic?

Melissa:
Exactly see it. So you want the oil to get hot because first thing you want to heat the pan. If this is such an interesting thing about the thermic, the thermodynamics of metal. So you put a pan on your fire and the metal actually expands as you heat it up and then you put the oil in after the pan has gotten a little bit hot and the oil can fill in and it can spread so much more easily in this hot pan. And so the pan becomes more nonstick. And if you heat it up everything together when it was cold and then you add your garlic and then you know that that garlic hitting the oil is going to start browning immediately and it’s going to have the immediate reaction. You’re going to have the best flavor that way, because that way you have the Browning on the outside, but you’re not going to get that burning and you’re not going to get soggy garlic if it all comes up together. So there’s a reason that you do these things in stages and just thick little notes to kids about why that’s important. It helps them get it and retain it and also helps them be able to experiment on their own, because once they understand the principles are like, OK, so that works with garlic. Does it work with onions? Yes, it does. And then they can go from there and create their own dishes because they really I mean, if once kids start cooking like they love it, they just start they really like they’re in control of how they get there. They are in charge. And letting kids be in charge of the kitchen is like the best gift you can give them. And yourself, if you, you know, let

Rebecca:
It’s

Melissa:
Them cook

Rebecca:
So

Melissa:
For you.

Rebecca:
True, I think the other thing I realized, one of my daughters whose college didn’t move them on to campus, so she lives in an apartment with two other girls, are in a house, and they there are three of them. So they each cook dinner twice a week. And then one night a week they ordered dinner, picked up or whatever, and one of them was vegan. So everything my daughter kind of knew to make for me was not going to work

Amy:
Uh.

Melissa:
Right, right.

Rebecca:
Because I’m a big like just make if you can make a roast chicken, like, you will always be popular, like you

Melissa:
Yeah.

Rebecca:
Will have people come to your house. So she was like, what do I mean? You know, I’m not going make a big roast tofu. So it’s really interesting to see, you know, kind of she had to research recipes in a different way than I do. I actually like pretty much live on The New York Times cooking out and Smeeton Kitchen, like, those are my two go tos.

Melissa:
Zoom.

Rebecca:
And she was like, I don’t want to just leave the meat out. Like it was so hard, but it really was great. Like she had to sort of challenge yourself in a way that I’ve actually never challenged myself with cooking. And she came home and I was like, well, now you can make dinner because

Melissa:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
If you can

Melissa:
Exactly,

Rebecca:
Do it for your

Melissa:
And

Rebecca:
Friends every week, do it here.

Melissa:
And now you can make up something for dinner that we probably haven’t made for ourselves because you’re not thinking vegan necessarily. Right? Like it’s

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Melissa:
A different which is which is actually really I think I’m seeing this with, you know, people learning how to cook, they being able to control what they eat, like if they’re vegan or libertarian, have dietary restrictions like that also takes out a lot of anxiety of eating and cooking, knowing that they can control the food that they eat. So I think and more and more kids really care about this stuff.

Rebecca:
Yeah, I think, you know, the only other thing I really think about when I think about my daughter’s cooking and even myself is a knife skills class like I realize I was never taught. You know, I just watched a lot of Food Network and like, I think this is how they do it. It works. But what do you think about something like that? Like where? Like, are there classes for sort of younger kids on how to do that?

Melissa:
Well, I recommend in the book that, first of all, you know, when you’re just starting out and learning how to use a knife, you should pick find a knife in, you know, go to your parents knife to pick up the knife that fits in your hand. And it’s probably not going to be that giant 10 inch chef’s knife

Rebecca:
Right.

Melissa:
Like the CI a.. You know, because that’s actually probably it’s too big for me. It’s probably

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Melissa:
Too big for your kid. So, you know, help them find a knife that fits in their hand. So a paring knife, of course, is going to work. But also, you know, the smaller, like six, seven inch chef’s knives or, you know, those are great because they’re smaller and it’s all about your knife needs to be an extension of your hand. So you need to control it. It needs to feel comfortable. And then once you’ve picked out your knife, I say go online with your kids and just watch a bunch of YouTube videos on knife techniques. You don’t even need to go to a class. I mean, you can do an online class. Those are great. But you don’t need to just watch a couple of videos. YouTube is full of them. And because it’s really not that first of all, there’s three or four, I think three different grips that are correct. There are many correct ways to hold a knife. And what you want to do is you want to figure out what’s the most comfortable for your particular hand. So watch them and then practice. Watch them in the kitchen. And you should do that with your kid because your knife skills are going to improve also, and then your kid is going to get more comfortable. Plus they have someone else teaching them. And again, it’s like the parent thing. It’s like, you know, the parents can never teach the kids as well as someone

Rebecca:
Uh.

Melissa:
Else, but you’re right there. So I think that’s an important first step to getting everybody’s knife skills, you know, up to snuff.

Andrea:
And talk to me a little bit about cooking, smaller cooking for to making these, you know, these holiday dinners or even just regular dinners, you know, do you do you cook for two? Do you do you still cook for four or six and freeze? Do you use a food saver like a vacuum seal or how do you you know, like what do you do now to make it easier?

Melissa:
Yeah, I mean, I still cook, I you know, I mean, I think when you’re cooking something that does keep like, you know, you’re not going to roast half a chicken, right. Like you just you’re going to roast

Andrea:
All

Melissa:
Chicken

Andrea:
Right.

Melissa:
And that’s going to I mean, you’re going to you know, so there’s more I mean, I am finding that I’m being more creative with the leftovers, which is great. I mean, using leftovers creatively is actually a whole thing that I think right now, you know, we’re all embracing freezing things is really important. You know, I’m not going to cook a little. I just I guess I’m just not cooking small amounts of food except when it comes to, like, fancy food. OK, so, you know, we’re not having dinner parties, right. So maybe I don’t know. I was thinking about making braised short ribs the other day, you know, for I was going to make sure I was thinking about making for Hanukkah. So it’s like, well, I’m not going to make four pounds of brie short ribs. It’s just going to even if I could freeze it, which I can, it’s just seems like too much. So there’s no reason you can’t have a recipe. So I know I think it all just depends like on does it freeze as well as if it does it freeze as well as it tastes when I first make it like if it’s going to freeze perfectly, like tomato sauce freezes perfectly, you might as well make the whole tomato sauce a roast chicken.

Melissa:
You’re not going to make half a roast chicken. So you’re going to figure out how to use the leftovers. Beans like beans, soups are so good to have in the freezer. And they’re actually, you know, talk about the lunch problem that we’ve all been having. You know, like making lunch, having soup in the freezer has been our saving grace for this whole like as soon as the weather got cold, we made soup, put it in the freezer, and then my husband or my daughter could just pull it out and defrost it. And I don’t even need to know about it. So that has been so I guess I I’m sort of thinking out loud so I don’t have an answer about the way that I’ve I guess I don’t have a strategy, but I guess I go case by case in general. I think I probably cook about the same amount of food, but for the short ribs, I think I’m going to have that recipe that makes sense. I mean, I do think it gets I mean, I think with Thanksgiving of all the holidays, I think that was probably the hardest for all of us to get through. I don’t know. Did

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Melissa:
You feel like not having the crowd around the table?

Rebecca:
Yeah, having the laptop on the table with the little Zoom faces was not the same thing.

Andrea:
It actually was the first Thanksgiving I ever went to a restaurant and I have hosted Thanksgiving for 20 my entire life, so it is the first Thanksgiving I wasn’t with my son because he’s down in D.C. and I did go into the city, into Tribeca, and it was so gorgeous. I met my sister and her husband and we sat outdoors at a restaurant without even a coat on.

Melissa:
Wow.

Andrea:
And it was nice to be with them, but it was so weird being in a restaurant at Thanksgiving.

Melissa:
Yeah.

Andrea:
Bizarre, I never want to do it again.

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Melissa:
Yeah, well, hopefully by next year, we’ll all be back to, you know, piling in the guests and pulling out the folding chairs and

Rebecca:
All right,

Melissa:
All that stuff.

Rebecca:
I guess in some ways it was it was kind of a nice reset, though, I think for a lot of people, you know, that sometimes all of those pressures, like it’s so nice and everyone’s there. But it is a lot that preparation beforehand and it is a lot afterwards. And sometimes maybe it was nice to have one year of like, all right, we’re going to kind of all reset and

Melissa:
Yeah.

Rebecca:
Then doubly appreciate next year or just I don’t know, this one’s a wash, so let’s do it again.

Melissa:
Yeah, maybe we’re just going to save up our entertaining year for next year and let them all out.

Rebecca:
Right, that’s what I keep saying about the parades, I think every parade is going to have to be a mishmash, massive celebration parade, but yeah, well, this was so helpful. Melissa, thank you. We love having you on.

Melissa:
Thank you so much, I love talking to you. It’s just it just makes me happy. So thank you.

Rebecca:
Good, well, we’re happy to have you on all the time, you churn out a cookbook like every six months, so

Melissa:
Tell him you

Rebecca:
We’re happy

Melissa:
Got to

Rebecca:
To

Melissa:
Make

Rebecca:
Have

Melissa:
A living.

Rebecca:
You on. Yeah, we’re happy to have you all. And every time I have, like, a little Melissa Clark cookbook section that just keeps expanding, I always kick one out when I get a new one. So I haven’t used you since. It’s like, bye bye, but thank you. This is really great. And hopefully everyone will be inspired to like make cookies and not have a SAT holiday. Just figure out a way

Andrea:
Yes,

Rebecca:
To

Andrea:
Cookies,

Rebecca:
Cookies. Cookies for all.

Melissa:
Yeah.

Andrea:
I need cookies for beginners.

Amy:
A cookie Kid in the Kitchen.

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Andrea:
Yep,

Melissa:
Well,

Andrea:
That’s

Melissa:
There’s

Andrea:
It,

Melissa:
A bunch of cookie recipes in there for you, so.

Andrea:
Perfect.

Rebecca:
Yum,

Andrea:
I’m going to take pictures of them for you.

Rebecca:
Awesome. Thank you. Melissa, thanks so much.

Melissa:
Thanks by.

Rebecca:
We will be right back with our Bytes of the Week..

Rebecca:
We are back with our Bytes of the Week., Amy, what do you have?

Amy:
I have basically the only phone grip that has made me confident enough to not have any kind of case on my phone, and it’s actually a company that Andrea and I saw earlier this year at CBS in the before times when we were with lots of people and they had like an old version of this product that they gave me a free sample of. I didn’t love it. It was a good idea, but it wasn’t like really well executed. They totally redesigned it. I bought the new version. It’s called The SNAP Grip. And it is amazing. Like, it’s it’s super strong. It’s a magnet. So, like, even if I don’t have one of their holders or any other holder around, like I had to take a selfie of myself yesterday, I just stuck it to my microwave. It like you can either stick your finger into it for a secure grip or you can turn it into a kickstand so that you can stand your phone up at a couple of different angles. You can buy car chargers, which I did. You can buy regular chargers, which I did it. You can buy like little metal plates to stick places. Like if you have a particular place where you you know that you’re going to want to hang your phone, you can stick one of those to the wall and then you can just stick it there. It’s so versatile. It’s so good. And you can charge through it like in my bedroom. I don’t have one of their chargers. I just have my old charger and I can charge right through the grip. So cannot recommend this highly enough. It would make a great gift. Great stocking stuffer. It’s called. Oh, SNAP.

Rebecca:
That sounds awesome.

Andrea:
You know, it’s so funny that you said that because I had the original version as well in purple, by the way,

Amy:
Yeah.

Andrea:
And I loved it. I

Amy:
Oh.

Andrea:
Loved it. In fact, it’s still on the back of one of my phone cases. And I used it with a wire, with a magnetic car charger mount. So I just stuck it to the mount in my car. But I didn’t have to, like, go through a whole thing to to get a magnetic case. And when I went to go buy another one, I saw that they don’t have it anymore. And they had a different version. And I didn’t like the way that looked.

Amy:
Oh, that’s so weird.

Andrea:
So you’re telling me it’s worth looking at,

Amy:
I love it and I

Andrea:
Huh?

Amy:
Didn’t like the old one, I thought that the old one had that little metal part that stuck out in order

Andrea:
Yeah,

Amy:
To

Andrea:
Yeah,

Amy:
Kind of. Yeah,

Andrea:
But

Amy:
I kept

Andrea:
It doesn’t

Amy:
Getting at

Andrea:
Stick out, it’s flat.

Amy:
It. Mine maybe mine was defective, like mine stuck out and I kept getting it snagged on things.

Andrea:
Oh,

Amy:
And

Andrea:
No, no, yours was broken.

Amy:
This one, the grip is like it’s on like silicone bands. So you can kind of pull it out and then it goes back in when you’re done.

Andrea:
Got it, huh? All right, well, we’ll have to trade or send me one, I’ll have to get one and see. That’s funny because I like the first

Rebecca:
That

Andrea:
One.

Rebecca:
Sounds cool.

Andrea:
All right. I have I have one product and one other thing. So let me start with the product. This is the least sexy holiday gift you can ever get somebody. But let me tell you something. I love this. It is the Hoover SmartWash automatic carpet cleaner

Amy:
Oh,

Andrea:
For

Amy:
Wow.

Andrea:
Pets

Rebecca:
Wait, I

Andrea:
Now.

Rebecca:
Have it.

Andrea:
No.

Rebecca:
Yes.

Andrea:
Is yours purple?

Rebecca:
No, mine

Andrea:
Mine’s

Rebecca:
Is

Andrea:
Purple.

Rebecca:
Yours, this purple mine is, I want to say mine’s blue.

Andrea:
Ok. All right. Well, mine is purple. It’s like I remember going to the grocery store and renting carpet cleaners.

Amy:
Oh,

Andrea:
Right.

Amy:
Yeah.

Andrea:
We would like rent them for a day and you’d have to get all the carpets done in one day and get it back by twenty four hours. And what a rigamarole this is like. I can wheel it around. I don’t have to lift it. It’s like a regular stand up vacuum, but it’s got attachments. You put this automatic, you put this cleaning solution in it, you fill the thing with water, it’s so easy. And I went into my front bedroom and I, you push it forward and it cleans, it puts out soap. And you can also there’s a sprayer that you can pretty like if there’s lots of, you know, cat dirt or something. And then when you pull it back, it dries. And I was kind of confused because I’m like, well, I don’t want to dry it. I want to go over it again and again and again. And so now I’m making the carpet crazy. Why wet, dry, wet, dry. But when it dries, it’s kind of extracting and that’s when it extracts the dirt. I

Amy:
Uh.

Andrea:
Have learned because let me tell you something, I took a picture and I will send it to Amy. The water in this thing was black,

Amy:
Oh,

Andrea:
Black,

Rebecca:
Oh,

Amy:
God,

Rebecca:
Yeah, Toss

Andrea:
Black.

Rebecca:
Across.

Amy:
It’s so

Andrea:
And

Amy:
Disgusting.

Andrea:
It’s like, wait, I lie on this floor and I do my workouts and this is

Amy:
Yep,

Andrea:
Disgusting.

Amy:
Every time I’ve rented where I’m like, I sit on that couch, oh my God,

Andrea:
Oh, my

Amy:
Yeah.

Andrea:
God.

Amy:
So

Andrea:
Well,

Amy:
This kind.

Andrea:
This is like built for four parts, it’s got an eight foot attachment hose, it’s got a little accessory bag. It’s got comes with cleaning solution. I love the trigger thing that you can retreat. And it’s it’s great. It’s

Amy:
I

Andrea:
Great. I

Amy:
I

Andrea:
Use

Amy:
Might

Andrea:
It.

Amy:
Have to check that out, because we adopted two kittens last week.

Andrea:
I know I’m so excited about

Amy:
And,

Andrea:
Your kittens.

Amy:
You know, we’ll see I don’t know if they’ll be the ones making the messes or if the existing cat will be making messes out of jealousy, but we’ll see

Andrea:
Oh,

Amy:
How it goes.

Andrea:
Gosh,

Rebecca:
Well, that’s why we got

Andrea:
Act.

Rebecca:
Ours. We got ours because of the puppy, because there came there was a week where where she eats something

Amy:
Oh,

Rebecca:
At the dog run, and

Amy:
God.

Rebecca:
That was really the end of the rug. And I was like, this is ridiculous. I can’t keep going through rugs like this is

Amy:
Yeah,

Andrea:
Well,

Rebecca:
Bananas.

Andrea:
Or also,

Amy:
They’re

Andrea:
How

Amy:
Not

Andrea:
Long

Amy:
Supposed

Andrea:
Can

Amy:
To

Andrea:
You

Amy:
Be

Andrea:
Get

Amy:
Disposable.

Andrea:
On your your hands

Rebecca:
All right.

Andrea:
And knees with a sponge and resolve carpet

Rebecca:
Yeah,

Andrea:
Cleaner,

Rebecca:
And

Andrea:
You know?

Rebecca:
Like and

Andrea:
Yeah,

Rebecca:
It’s sort of like stays down and then you’re

Andrea:
Yeah.

Rebecca:
Like, oh, is it moldy now the pad underneath, like the whole thing. So yeah

Andrea:
And

Rebecca:
Kookery

Andrea:
That’s why

Rebecca:
Made fun

Andrea:
This

Rebecca:
Of

Andrea:
Is

Rebecca:
Me,

Andrea:
So

Rebecca:
But it’s

Andrea:
Cool,

Rebecca:
The best.

Andrea:
Because it dries. I mean,

Rebecca:
Yeah.

Andrea:
You know, of course it’s going to be wet for a couple of hours, but it really does extract the water and dries. So

Amy:
Oh,

Andrea:
It’s

Amy:
That’s

Andrea:
It’s

Amy:
So great.

Andrea:
It’s yeah, it’s kind

Rebecca:
Yeah,

Andrea:
Of cool,

Rebecca:
It’s really

Andrea:
But

Rebecca:
Fun to

Andrea:
But

Rebecca:
Watch,

Andrea:
I

Rebecca:
Too.

Andrea:
Don’t bite off more than I can chew. I really I do one room. That’s it. I do

Rebecca:
Of

Andrea:
One room.

Rebecca:
Course.

Andrea:
I bring it back in the garage. Then like the next we’re going to do another room.

Rebecca:
Yeah, yeah.

Andrea:
Ok, and then here’s just a fun thing that because, you know, like letters to Santa, I think have gotten lost with email and covid and everything else. And here in my community, we did it like a giving tree for the Salvation Army. And everyone, you know, read a thing from a card of what they want and we’re donating. So T-Mobile is doing real time video calls with Santa. And I just

Rebecca:
Woodle!.

Andrea:
I think this is so cute, right? Because all these kids are home doing video calls with school and video calls with their grandma. So starting now, actually through Wednesday, the twenty third anyone you don’t have to be a T-Mobile customer can go online and schedule a free video call with Santa on Santa calling Dotcom, and then they send you a video of your chat with Santa so you can share it with your grandparents and all

Amy:
Oh.

Andrea:
That kind of stuff. Now, here’s the thing. You have to go online and sign up and the time slots open every day on the website at nine a.m. Pacific, noon Eastern Time. So you sign up for a slot, then they send you an email confirmation and then you get a link to join your video call. So I think it’s a cute thing.

Amy:
Is it like getting a Disney dining reservation where you need to be

Rebecca:
I

Amy:
On

Rebecca:
Know.

Amy:
There, like the minute it opens?

Andrea:
Yeah, I don’t know, I myself haven’t tried it, but, yeah, you might want to you might want to do it right at noon or whatever time zone you’re in.

Rebecca:
Science is going to be popular,

Andrea:
Yeah, I think so.

Rebecca:
Boy, Santa has it easy this year. You know, he doesn’t have to

Andrea:
Not a lot

Rebecca:
Have

Andrea:
Of

Rebecca:
To.

Andrea:
Laps sitting.

Rebecca:
Yeah. All right. So mine I don’t know if you could get this as a last minute gift, because it might be. I think the personalization will make it too long, but it’s still a really cute gift. So if you want to do like New Year’s or if you want to think ahead to Valentine’s Day,

Amy:
Oh.

Rebecca:
This could be a cute gift. So you guys know those cashmere sweaters that have the stuff embroidered on them, like vote. They have like sayings on them. So a lot of them are have been political sayings. And it’s sort of like a classy way to wear a political thing rather than a t shirt. So, like, if you go so this is a this is an Etsy shop called TheLadyDoth and she does these custom, they’re 100 percent cashmere crewneck sweater. So they’re like, really nice. And you pick your sweater and you pick your thread color and she can write anything. So what she shows on her store is like a lot of the political ones people had, which is like where the damn mask, which is like hilarious and like pink cursive, you know, embroidery on cashmere, like the more ironic the better. But, you know, vote when there are nine, resist whatever. But you could literally do anything. You could do someone’s name. So we had just ordered this for my mother in law for her 80th birthday with her name embroidered on the front.

Amy:
Oh.

Rebecca:
So they’re really pretty and they’re really I don’t know, they’re like a really nice, substantial personalized gift rather than.

Amy:
Like a box,

Rebecca:
Yeah, or

Amy:
A

Rebecca:
Like

Amy:
Keychain.

Rebecca:
A really terrible grandma sweater. You know what I’m saying

Amy:
Yeah.

Rebecca:
With the snowman on it and this is actually like if you have a classic grandma, like my mother in law, if you have fancy grandma, this is a gift for you, but also super good gift for, like a teenager or a girlfriend or whatever. So I love this Etsy shop. I love Etsy anyway, but I find it very hard to find things on Etsy so that people find things for me on Etsy. I’m always really excited. So we’ll put a link to this again. The shop is called TheLadyDoth and it’s one hundred thirty six dollars because it’s cashmere, but it’s personalized and it’s, you know, it could be one of a kind. So

Andrea:
That’s

Amy:
Nice,

Andrea:
Cute. That’s

Amy:
We’ll remind

Rebecca:
It’s

Andrea:
Nice.

Rebecca:
Really

Amy:
People

Rebecca:
Cute.

Amy:
Before like Mother’s Day and when we all have Christmas and Hanukkah and July.

Rebecca:
Right, exactly. What we have, our giant Christmas,

Amy:
On the Christmas,

Rebecca:
Thanksgiving,

Amy:
Easter,

Rebecca:
St. Patrick’s Day, Easter, Passover. Yeah, Kwanzaa, Diwali.

Amy:
Everything.

Rebecca:
Throw it all in there. Yeah. So anyway, that is my bite. That is our show for today. You can find links to everything we talked about at our show page at Parenting Bytes dot com. Also at Facebook, dot com slash Parenting Bytes, where you will find links to all of the shows as well. And you can also leave us comments or suggestions. Please read reviews, subscribe and share wherever you are listening right now. And until actually we will be doing some best ofs for the next couple of weeks and we will talk to you again in the New Year. Until then, happy New Year and happy parenting.

Amy:
Cnn last year.

Andrea:
Happy New Year.

Rebecca:
Hey, this is our Parenting Bytes disclaimer, everything we talk about on the show is our own opinion, any products we recommend, it’s our own personal recommendation for entertainment purposes only. If you buy something through our affiliate links or you just happened to buy or see or read or watch something that we recommended, it’s at your own risk.

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